Mildly Thriving

Why Isn't Joy Out Biggest KPI in Life?

• Mildly Thriving • Episode 17

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 In this week’s episode of Mildly Thriving, Kimberly and Meredith tackle the hard-hitting topic of joy. Yes, JOY, the KPI (key performance indicator) of life that somehow keeps getting overshadowed by money, “success,” and other things that can’t hug you back. Why isn’t joy the metric we obsess over? And who do we blame? (Hint: the Puritans. Obviously.)

The girls share some of the historical weirdness that made joy feel like a guilty pleasure, sprinkle in some actual insight, and, because this is Mildly Thriving, drop multiple references to classic Vines you should absolutely know if you want to keep up with them.

Join them for a few laughs and then rethink what your KPIs should actually be. 

Insta: @MildlyThrivingPod

Original audio by Patrck Joseph (Thanks Patrick)

Insert legal disclaimer and jargon here... but like... don't steal our shit?


kimberly:

hi Meredith.

Meredith:

Hi Kimberly. How

kimberly:

are you?

Speaker 6:

I'm actually really good today.

kimberly:

On a scale of mildly to thriving, how are you doing?

Speaker 5:

doing?

Speaker 6:

Six or a seven I would call that good.

kimberly:

Is this a scale of one to 10 with one being mildly mild and 10 being thriving? Thriving?

Speaker:

Yes,

kimberly:

because if it was a scale of one to a hundred, I'd be like, Ooh, she's mild today.

Speaker 6:

That's okay. That's fair. I apologize. Let's get on the same page about what the scale is. Yeah. I was thinking one to 10.

kimberly:

Okay. Okay. the scale I presented you with was mild to thriving. Mild to thriving, and you said six to eight. So I

Speaker 6:

because I how many ways

kimberly:

I don't know

Speaker 6:

that

kimberly:

we really should flush this out and come up with a like actual scale, scale that, that we could put on a key chain. And carry with us all times. Yeah. I

Speaker 6:

know. We're gonna, we're

kimberly:

we'll workshop that. Yes. Thank you. Then we can really dial down and maybe double click that and make a spreadsheet and

Speaker 6:

we'll fix it in post

kimberly:

a deck,

Speaker 6:

other people say.

kimberly:

Yeah. That was just some corporate speak that I've picked up over the years.

Speaker 5:

Sure. Yeah.

kimberly:

You're welcome. so welcome back to another episode of Mildly Thriving. I'm Kimberly.

Speaker 4:

I'm Meredith. Yeah.

kimberly:

This episode we're gonna be talking about some stuff, but I wanted to d some things and Yep. Some stuff and things. And Dixon Butts. Dixon Butts, Dix and

Speaker 6:

I thought you would really enjoy the way the editing software reads. When we say Dix and

Speaker:

Yeah. What does it say

Speaker 6:

Dixon, like

Speaker:

d Dixon, EX and EN.

Speaker 6:

and then it's and. B-U-T-T-S-O-N. Like Butson,

Speaker:

Dixon and

kimberly:

Butson. Yes. Yeah, it's cute. Maybe we should enunciate a little more. So Dix and buts. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Software. Dix and Butts. Okay.

kimberly:

We'll see how it interprets this time around.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, maybe it is just, maybe it's me.'cause it also says

Speaker:

is you

Speaker 6:

It also says Bo Guy every time I say boat guy.

kimberly:

Yeah. Yeah, it does. It doesn't like calling him boat guy. It's just we should just call him Bo from now on. Bo

Speaker 8:

kinda has two meanings.

kimberly:

Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 8:

Wow.

kimberly:

That's deep.

Speaker 8:

Oh my God.

kimberly:

anyway, we are gonna read some of our fan mail that we've gotten

Speaker 6:

and by some of we mean one,

kimberly:

No, we've gotten three.

Speaker 6:

No, we have not.

Speaker:

Yeah, we did.

kimberly:

No, we didn't. I'm, you know what, Meredith, I'm gonna read them.

Speaker 5:

Okay, fine. Okay.

kimberly:

So we got one from our friend, she's our friend. But everyone who listens is our friend.

Speaker 6:

Oh yeah, they are now.

kimberly:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Jokes on you.

kimberly:

And she says, hi from your fan, Karly, and then the waving emoji. So emojis do come through when you send us a text message, which you can do from the episode description. So wherever you're listening to your podcast, you can hit the episode description and then click the link that says, send us a text

Speaker 6:

one day when we have video associated with this. You can see how much Kimberly is describing this with her hands. She's like using the microphone to pretend it's the button.

kimberly:

up. Yeah. Yeah. It's good.

Speaker 6:

You have to make it up in your head for now, but yeah. One day

kimberly:

you can just imagine that. And should I describe what I'm wearing? So they can really No

Speaker 6:

yeah. Okay. Okay. Assless chaps. I have those for you by the way.

Speaker:

do? I

Speaker 6:

do. Thanks Amy.

Speaker:

you

kimberly:

Amy. That's true friendship. I know. I'm making the heart shape with my hands.

Speaker 6:

I, I would like to point out really quick though, when did Carly send that?'cause I didn't see that

kimberly:

And I

Speaker 6:

our emails

kimberly:

November 10th.

Speaker 6:

I always check our emails. That's fine. Did you hide that from me? Maybe Bitch. Thanks Carly.

kimberly:

And then in response to our episode we wish, yeah. How we wish we were psychopaths. Someone, I don't know who this is. I didn't have their phone number in my phone. You didn't have their phone number in your phone.

Speaker 6:

So that means that someone who's just solely listening because they found the podcast. Yeah. Which is awesome. Whoever you are Yes. We love you.

Speaker:

Yes.

kimberly:

Your identity is safe with us also. We can't figure it out. We only get the last four digits of the phone number. So we both typed that into our phones and we were like, oh my God, I don't know who

Speaker 7:

we don't know. This is amazing.

kimberly:

They said I wanna assume that it's a she, that's what you get for assuming so I'm just gonna say they. Yes. Okay. OMG. This ep I think that's short for episode is hitting hard. I have a kid with ODD, which is

Speaker 6:

oppositional defiant disorder

kimberly:

In my class this year. So I'm assuming that this person is an educator of some sort and they said trying to be a teacher. Oh, wait, just kidding. Trying to, yeah. Oh let's

Speaker 6:

that a another go.

kimberly:

Everyone knows I can't read. Good.

Speaker 6:

I know. We should have. Let me do this part.

kimberly:

There you go.

Speaker 6:

All right. I read one menu one time, and now I'm the official reader of

kimberly:

God, I was so hungry after that.

Speaker 6:

Oh, stop. Oh, OMG. This EP is hitting hard. I have a kid with ODD in my class this year trying to be a teacher. He doesn't hate

kimberly:

it. Cut it off. Ah,

Speaker 6:

shit. Where? How do I,

kimberly:

I don't know. Fine. Gimme my shit back.

Speaker:

Gimme my

kimberly:

halfback. Jordan, do

Speaker 6:

do you wanna see Uncle Cracker or not? Hang on.

kimberly:

that's a vine reference for everyone who,

Speaker 6:

if you are listening to this podcast and you don't get that,

kimberly:

please go watch Vine compilations. Eat a gummy and go watch Vine compilations.

Speaker 6:

Hang on. Oh no. This is the, that's the third one. You get to read that one.

kimberly:

Oh, okay.

Speaker 6:

Go ahead, read that while I find the first one.

kimberly:

We're gonna skip ahead a little bit in some of our fan mail and this one is from someone in Seattle, Washington. And it says, show us your tits. And I'm gonna respond to that and say, okay, as long as Meredith doesn't

Speaker 6:

knew that was

kimberly:

fine.

Speaker 6:

So got the first fan mail this weekend and I texted Kimberly as soon as I saw it.'cause I was like, I don't know this person. Do you know this person? Oh my gosh. We have a real text message from a real listener and then, I don't know, 20 minutes later. We get another one that says, show me your tits. And it says, location, Seattle, Washington. I didn't even check the phone number. I just texted Kimberly and I was like, I know you

Speaker:

sent that.

kimberly:

I used Josh's phone thinking that I could be really sneaky, but you're right, I should have.

Speaker 6:

you should have given it a day and I actually would've believed it because of how much we talk about your tits. Yeah. I was like, oh, this actually could have been a real thing. And I'm gullible as shit. God

Speaker:

God damnit.

Speaker 6:

Do you want me to read the actual fan mail piece? Yes. Okay. This is the real piece of fan mail that we got. I don't like that we keep calling it fan mail because I don't it feel like text. We got text. We got a text message from a listener OMG. This episode is hitting hard. I have a kid with ODD in my class this year trying to be a teacher he doesn't hate, so I don't die when he shoots up the school and reading that the first time through. I come from an emergency services background, so I laughed at that initially not because I think school shootings are funny. That's terrible. I've actually had to work through one in dispatch,

Speaker:

Oh my God,

kimberly:

I didn't know that.

Speaker 6:

Story for another time. Yeah. But there's a lot of dark humor associated with jobs like that, and I think the joke there is like she's trying to make light of the fact that this is a scary thing that she has to deal with potentially every single day. Yeah. So

kimberly:

I, I laughed at it as well, but then also I, like

Speaker 6:

we both

kimberly:

went back and I was like, I hate that this is an actual thing that people

Speaker 5:

are scared

kimberly:

have dealt with, and that people continue to deal with

Speaker 6:

going to work. In a job, that potentially involves violence. Yes. You can expect, like that's something that you can be scared of every day because that's something that is a part of your job.

kimberly:

but

Speaker 6:

but a school teacher. Yeah, that's that. Also a topic for another time. Yes. But I did appreciate that something we talked about was relatable to someone who's not just my friend. That I keep telling this po telling this podcast about two.

kimberly:

telling about this

Speaker 6:

podcast. Podcast two. Oh God.

kimberly:

that I keep telling my friend about this

Speaker 6:

Remember when I said I was thriving today?

kimberly:

Yeah. Did you wanna knock that down A few

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I think I'm back down to a three. I can't even make a

kimberly:

said, oh, wow.

Speaker 6:

The point of that was super grateful that somebody's actually listening and is relating to anything. Sorry. That's what you're going through.

kimberly:

Yes. I hate that's what school teachers like, that's in the back of their mind. Yeah. That kills me. Me

Speaker 9:

Me too.

kimberly:

Okay. So today's episode is going to be titled something about Why Isn't Joy, our biggest KPI? And before you ask, oh.

Speaker 4:

okay.

kimberly:

I'm gonna say that KPI is key performance indicator.

Speaker 6:

because Meredith's dumbass had to Google it. When Kimberly sent her the topic I was like, oh, cool, what does that mean?

kimberly:

I don't think you've ever worked in a role where you're like, gauging numbers.

Speaker 6:

No.

kimberly:

in emergency management. You're not doing how many calls did you take and or how many sales did you make?

Speaker 6:

our numbers. Are qualitative in a different way. Yours is based on sales. Mine is based on statistics.

kimberly:

Yeah. So I have a marketing background and so we use. KPIs to determine whether something is a success.

Speaker 5:

Got it.

kimberly:

What I'm really trying to say with that title is why isn't Joy the thing that we use to measure success?

Speaker 8:

Okay. Tell me why.

kimberly:

No, I was asking you that question and I want you to explain it to me. That was the whole outline was I was just gonna ask you and

Speaker 6:

Wow, you are about to be sorely disappointed. You're ready to knock that scale down. A couple more points.

kimberly:

Okay. I picked this topic because I'm curious why we don't consider joy I'm gonna probably use the terms joy and happiness interchangeably. But I feel like we gauge

Speaker 5:

success

kimberly:

Based on what people have, who they know, what they do for a living, if they have kids how they dress, where they live, where they travel, et cetera. But we don't actually gauge whether any of those things bring them joy or happiness. Another reason I picked this topic is because sometimes I like look around my life and I'm like, I'm having a great time. Like I'm having a great fucking time. I'm not saying that I don't have my down days or struggles or whatever, but like I'm genuinely having a good time. And when I was a kid, I don't really remember the adults in my life having as much fun as I do. I don't remember them like laughing or playing or just like genuinely experiencing joy. And I think part of that is because joy and happiness when you're adult is different than when you're a kid.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

kimberly:

But I'm also surprised by how much, and it could just be because I'm a little more playful, but Josh and I'll be in the airport and we will like, start like poking at each other and playing around and I'll like unzip his jacket and then, like maybe I'm just, maybe I'm just really immature. I don't know. But

Speaker 6:

You are, but that's a, that's totally

Speaker:

unrelated. That's beside the point.

Speaker 6:

like the point. Yeah. How many times have you said something in public where I'm just like, Jesus Christ, Kimberly.

Speaker 5:

Oh,

Speaker 6:

numerous times.

kimberly:

Oh. Do you have any examples?

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Take your shirt off.

kimberly:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 6:

yeah.

kimberly:

They didn't take their shirt

Speaker 6:

I know. It was actually disappointing.

kimberly:

Yeah. See, okay. We would've had a lot more fun if the band had taken their shirt off.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I I need friends like you in my life that say the things that I'm thinking and I'm just not willing to say,

kimberly:

Yeah. Sometimes I do that, sometimes I won't. It depends on how how shy I'm feeling or not,

Speaker 6:

yes. To go back to your point though, I don't think you're weird or immature. I do the same thing. I think people just express

kimberly:

maybe we're both just weird and immature.

Speaker 6:

That's true. That's, that's probably why we're such good friends. But I am also that person that does the stupid, playful I'll poke your butt while we're standing in line somewhere. Or I'll, I don't know, I, on that topic, do you like PDA?

kimberly:

I don't wanna hold hands.

Speaker 5:

Okay.

kimberly:

Just because

Speaker 5:

it's

kimberly:

it's just uncomfortable. Yeah. But if we're standing in line, we can hug or, a little, I, I don't like it to get out of hand.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

I'm not gonna be making out with you in the middle of a line,

kimberly:

Yeah. But yeah. I'll show you affection.

Speaker 6:

Okay. Yeah. Just curious. Oh, okay. I don't mind

kimberly:

so when you, like,

Speaker 6:

when I start hugging you and kissing you in line, that's you'll, yeah. Okay.

kimberly:

now I'll understand why you're doing it, because obviously by telling you that I'm fine with it. I've opened the door. Yeah. To that. Cool. Okay.

Speaker 6:

Glad we're on the same

kimberly:

Okay, good. Great. Moving on.

Speaker 6:

Moving on.

kimberly:

I have a lot of fun with my friends. We joke a lot, we laugh a lot, I just feel like I'm having so much fun and maybe that's because I'm just really fun and cool. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

I think this a lot as well, and I think I just really try to be grateful for the things that I have. And maybe because I have worked in fields where you see negative shit all the

Speaker:

the time, Uhhuh,

Speaker 6:

But I'm pretty much watching the news all the time as part of my job, and it's just a lot of depressing things in your face all the time. And I think it makes me grateful every single day for the things that I have, I just think, I feel things pretty deeply, like on all ends of the emotional spectrum, and so I think about those who are far less fortunate. And I Rich, no. Do I need to be, no. Am I super grateful that I have a place to live and a car to drive and a job to go to every single day? Fuck yeah. And shit. I sent you that picture of the sunrise

Speaker:

Oh

kimberly:

my God.

Speaker 6:

I was like, I,

Speaker 5:

that

kimberly:

needs to be a morning affirmation

Speaker 5:

Post. Post.

kimberly:

photo. Yeah.

Speaker 5:

Photo. Yeah.

kimberly:

shit,

Speaker 6:

That was a good one. I, yeah, I just try to remind myself that it could always be worse. I am lucky to be. Born in the time period I was born in. I'm

kimberly:

Yeah. We have anesthesia.

Speaker 6:

Yes.

kimberly:

Hell yeah.

Speaker 6:

Also I'm allowed to vote.

Speaker:

Oh

kimberly:

yeah,

Speaker 6:

Oh, okay.

kimberly:

that too. That's really great.

Speaker 6:

That was really great. But I, even being a woman, I'm pretty, I have not had a lot of adversity in life and I'm pretty grateful for that. I do not take that for granted. Yeah. So

kimberly:

that's valid. It seems like the further that we get from just needing to survive on a daily basis, the more we want our lives to be easier and more comfortable. we as humans don't just go, oh, I'm satisfied. we continually want more. Remember that thing that you were gonna buy that was gonna make you so happy and was going to check all the boxes and fulfill you. Now you wanna upgrade that.

Speaker 6:

That's because you're getting bombarded with ads every single day. if I didn't look at my phone or the TV or the internet in any way for days, there's a good chance that I wouldn't buy anything. Like I wouldn't need to and I wouldn't think about it. But God, Amazon, especially lately, has been getting me, it's like I get emails about things

kimberly:

unsubscribed from their emails.

Speaker 6:

I should do that about you've looked at this before. We think you'd like this or we think you'd like this based on this. And now'cause I have Alexa.

kimberly:

Oh,

Speaker 6:

she'll be like.

Speaker 5:

We

kimberly:

unplugged ours.

Speaker 6:

It yeah. So I'll get a notification and I'll say, Alexa, read notification. And it'll be like, this thing in your saved list is however much percent off. Or this thing you looked at one time is on sale and we think you'd like this based on this previous purchase. And the point of me saying all this is, a lot of those items are designed to make your life better in some way. It's oh, this is going to organize your closet. This is going to,

kimberly:

or there's an orange peeler like it peel, like how hard is it to actually peel an orange? It's really not. It's not, it's really not that hard. But they're now is a tool, actually it's been around for a long time, but there's a tool specifically for that, which is crazy.

Speaker 6:

PE you should know people are very good at their jobs and they are peer, they're crushing it at marketing and make me think that I need that

kimberly:

Fucking marketers. And I think we may have talked about this on another episode, or maybe we didn't. I don't remember 50 50. But it's like the more comfortable we are or the more used to having some stuff be convenient the more likely we are to have a meltdown when things just aren't right or we're uncomfortable, even if it's for a short period of time. For example, we can get across the world in less than 24 hours, a voyage that would take months if not a year in years gone by. But we still complain about how much flying sucks.

Speaker 6:

Oh, yeah. What, we talked about this in the episode where you

Speaker:

the

Speaker 6:

The peasant. The peasant.

kimberly:

yes. I wonder you should go back and listen to that episode. It's, if you haven't listened to it yet, but it's about how my husband and I pretend that we are medieval peasants and,

Speaker 6:

Just being grateful for being born in the time period we're born

Speaker:

in.

kimberly:

Yes. Is the theme

Speaker 6:

version. Yes.

kimberly:

And just being grateful for our lives. And in general. But yeah and I think that there's like a, there's a comedian that does a skit about that and how somebody's like complaining about flying and he's like, dude, you're fucking flying. You're flying. You are in the air, you are flying. And it's like, oh yeah that's a valid point.

Speaker 6:

you explained that to a peasant, they'd be like, I'm sorry, what?

kimberly:

Could you imagine? No. The things that we do today,

Speaker 6:

I couldn't explain an alarm clock to a peasant.

kimberly:

Remember? I know. I think that this is slowly shifting with generations, but I'm questioning why joy has not been a KPI.

Speaker 5:

in the past

Speaker 4:

because it doesn't pay the bills.

kimberly:

Exactly. And so I wanted to dig into the why, and then I of wanted to see how things are changing. And I think it's hard to I think I'm seeing some trends, but we can chit chat about that. But it seems like the millennial generation, which is our Meredith and i's generation we're looking around and we're going like, y'all are miserable. Like we look at grandparents, great-grandparents parents, and we're like, wait, like you guys stayed married? Like, why did you do that? Oh wait, you had kids, but dude, you probably didn't even really want them. No. Like you, you worked at this job, like why? So that you could buy a bigger house that now you have to take care of and like you don't even like it. And, so I think the millennial generation is I'm gonna do things differently. And I think gen Z might be, starting to do things even differently than millennials. And it seems like they might be more focused on experiences versus, stuff, obviously that's hard to say'cause it's still young. I

Speaker 6:

that's how I am. Yeah. Like the amount of times my family will look at my social media or whatever and be like, oh my gosh, you're always traveling, you're always doing this thing. I can't believe you get to do all of this stuff. Or I've had people message me on Instagram before and ask how I afford my trips. Which I, first

kimberly:

sugar daddy the course, I

Speaker:

thought it was funny.

Speaker 6:

I was like that's a weird question to ask someone, but

kimberly:

are these people that you know? Yeah. Or, oh, okay.

Speaker 6:

So that's, I don't know. It caught me off guard. It was after the Alaska cruise, I went to Europe and it was within that timeframe, two separate people that I know were like, if you don't mind me asking, like, how do you afford to go on all of these trips?

kimberly:

I send pictures of my feet to people on

Speaker 6:

internet, and that was my exact response. I do not, sorry to disappoint, but I fucking

kimberly:

cool would that be though?

Speaker 6:

I know. Maybe

kimberly:

you have to do.

Speaker 6:

Maybe one day, if that

kimberly:

does somebody want pictures of my butt hole?

Speaker 6:

If it didn't require me to talk to anyone and I'm just sending you pictures of my butt hole? Sure. I

Speaker:

don't care. Yeah.

kimberly:

I don't know why you would want that, but whatever.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. Me

Speaker 6:

neither. Or my feet. What? Oh yeah. Either way. I did think it was an odd question, but I was like I'm not gonna lie, I have a job that pays me pretty decently. Like I'm not well off by any means, but I can afford to do these things. Yeah. But that's because I make those things a priority. It's whatever priority is yours. It's usually the people that are commenting on stuff like that. It's they own a house and have kids and I don't have any of those things, so I'm not paying for that. So I can pay to do these things, number one. And number two, the only thing I'm posting on my social media. Are the trips that I'm going on, I'm not posting any other aspect of my life. So that's not what I'm doing all the time.

kimberly:

And I think it's easy to forget that. Social media is a highlight reel. Some people literally post what they're doing every day, but not me. Yeah. For a lot of us it's just oh, I only post every once in a while.

Speaker 6:

It's my way to, you don't, but it's my way to share. Like those fun experiences with the family, I don't get to see very often. Both of those trips were paid for a year in advance.

kimberly:

And you were strategic, like you have a job that like, you can make up time. You have a flexible schedule, whereas there are people who, like if you office is only open Monday through Friday, like it's a lot harder to make those days work. Like you work four days a week. Yes.

Speaker 6:

I can like move days around. It is pretty flexible, but don't get it twisted. I am not well off by any means. I had to pay both of those trips off in payments. It wasn't like I just dropped four grand and that was that. That's not how that works. I strategically planned for these things. But,

kimberly:

but the other thing is the way that you traveled like when you went to Europe, you stayed in hostels, you traveled with a friend. Yep. And so you were splitting that cost. And then when you went on that cruise, there were three of you in one room, one date room. Were you in an inside room?

Speaker 6:

No, we had a balcony. Oh, okay. Which was super nice, but yes, it was me, my cousin and his girlfriend in one room, so

Speaker:

I romantic. I know.

Speaker 6:

It was really nice. So he was super excited when I met someone else to hang out with so they could have some fucking alone time. But yeah, it's much cheaper when you split the cost of stuff like that, yes. Yeah. Don't get it twisted. I'm not rich. Yeah, I promise.

kimberly:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

But that's what I choose to spend my money on.

kimberly:

Exactly. Yeah. That those are things that are a priority to you and.

Speaker 5:

And

kimberly:

You could have, instead of going to Europe, you could have bought a, I don't know what a thousand dollars bag is, but you could have done that instead. And yeah, I could

Speaker 6:

a down payment on a new fucking car.

kimberly:

Yeah. There's a bajillion different ways to spend your money and it's how you prioritize it. Yes. And if those are the things that bring you joy, then great. Yes.

Speaker 6:

Joy's a KPI for me.

kimberly:

Nice. A okay.

Speaker 6:

Sorry, I got a sidetracked.

kimberly:

did, but this is great. This is really great. So I wanted to explore what is it about like culture and just being a human that makes us choose certain things as KPIs.

Speaker 5:

but

kimberly:

I wanted to explore this thing called the World Happiness Report. since we're based in the US and we've been drinking the United States is the best country Kool-Aid since Birth, or at least from kindergarten. I was curious where the US ranked there's a ranking of 147 countries. Do you wanna guess where the US is on that list as of

Speaker 6:

as of today?

kimberly:

This is 20, I think this is the 2024 report, so just guess Okay. I'm gonna tell you what the World Happiness Report is. Okay. I'm gonna define

Speaker 5:

then I'll guess

kimberly:

Yes. So the World Happiness Report ranks countries based on how people actually feel about their lives. It combines both survey responses and supporting data. Its core measure is life evaluation where citizens rate their overall life satisfaction on a scale. To help explain why some countries score higher than others, the report also considers factors strongly associated with wellbeing, such as GDP per capita, which means economic stability, healthy life expectancy, and healthy is, I feel like a key term social support, which is having someone to rely on the freedom to make life choices, generosity and perceived corruption. These aren't. Used as strict inputs in a formula, but as key contributors that help interpret the survey results. where do you think the US ranks in?

Speaker 6:

that's really, it's really tough'cause like I know how I feel and I feel lucky for all of the things that I have access to here. But I also think about how. The world has been since COVID and how things have changed. And I'm having a hard time guessing because I'm like well, based

kimberly:

okay, well, do you want me to just tell you? No. Oh, okay.

Speaker 6:

25

kimberly:

24th. Wow. You're really good.

Speaker 5:

Damn.

Speaker 6:

See if you let me just work through my process.

kimberly:

I know. so the United States ranks 24th

Speaker 5:

and

kimberly:

and because we have listeners from the following countries, I picked these out. So Australia is 11th. Okay. Canada is 15th. The UK is 20th. Belize is 25th. Singapore is 34th.'cause remember we have some people from Singapore listening. Hey, I don't know. And then this was something that I thought was interesting was that Saudi Arabia actually ranked higher than France.

Speaker 6:

That is interesting. But I don't really know anything about Saudi Arabia, but I do. I've been to France

kimberly:

yeah I, yeah. I've never been to Saudi Arabia. I've also been to France. But I just thought that was interesting.'cause actually our Uber driver the other day was from Saudi Arabia and he was talking about how things had changed and he was saying that women now can drive. So maybe that

Speaker 6:

oh,

kimberly:

boosted the

Speaker 6:

can I guess who number one is?

Speaker 5:

Yes.

Speaker 6:

Is it Norway?

kimberly:

It is not.

Speaker 6:

Is it Holland?

kimberly:

No. Is Holland still

Speaker:

the country? Netherlands? Yes.

kimberly:

No. Number one is Finland, dammit. Number two is Denmark. Number three is Iceland. Number four is Sweden. Number five is the Netherlands. So like that area,

Speaker 5:

they got it going on.

kimberly:

they got it going on. It may be cold, but they're fucking happy. Yeah. And this, I thought this was surprising. Number six is Costa Rica. So weird. Yeah. So on that note, why aren't we using joy or happiness as our biggest KPI? I've got some reasons for you

Speaker 6:

Please tell me. Okay. Sorry that sounded so uninterested. Please tell me,

kimberly:

could you say that again, but more interested,

Speaker 7:

please tell me

kimberly:

That didn't feel real, that felt like you were gonna ask me for your gum drop buttons. Not my buttons,

Speaker 7:

not the come trap buttons. No.

kimberly:

my gum drop buttons. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna refocus us here. Yeah. Yeah. So number one, we are biologically wired for survival, not for joy.

Speaker 6:

Oh, all right. way to take a shit on that.

kimberly:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Think science. Yeah.

kimberly:

So we just go all the way to the back, We evolve to scan for danger, avoid risks, prioritize safety over pleasure.

Speaker 6:

Okay. It makes sense, Dr. Kimberly.

kimberly:

Yeah. So our brains treat joy as this nice to have, but we treat failure, rejection, and embarrassment as existential threats. cause like if you get kicked out of the tribe,

Speaker 6:

you're dead.

kimberly:

That's it for you.

Speaker 5:

So

kimberly:

joy feels. Optional. Yeah. The other thing is our puritanical roots. A lot of the people that came over to United States were puritans,

Speaker 5:

so they

kimberly:

they very much

Speaker 5:

treated

kimberly:

or joy.

Speaker 6:

Those are two separate

kimberly:

Yeah. So they treated joy as well. They definitely treated pleasure as

Speaker 6:

not allowed to have. Yeah. a lot of this, all of this ha is rooted in religion. Pleasure was not something you.

Speaker:

were

Speaker 6:

I really supposed to experience.

Speaker 5:

Yes.

kimberly:

But it's like why did we get so obsessed with that? cause it's because if people are happy, they don't believe in God?.

Speaker 6:

I have no idea.

kimberly:

Yeah. I don't know either.

Speaker 6:

This this is where my lack of religious knowledge

kimberly:

This is above my pay grade, it is

Speaker 6:

glaring.

kimberly:

And Puritans viewed work, discipline and sacrifice. Those were values. and joy wasn't a value.

Speaker 6:

I think the basic premise is like you're going to suffer in this lifetime and do whatever God needs you to do, and you will be rewarded

kimberly:

With pleasure and joy in the next life. Yes.

Speaker 6:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's the basis for, or that is an idea. Yeah. An ideology for most religions. Am I wrong there?

kimberly:

I think you're onto something. Okay. Okay. So the next thing is that productivity culture made joy, feel frivolous. The 20th, 21st century and maybe even prior to that. But I've only been around for portions of the 20th century and 21st century, We were obsessed with output and productivity and GDP and,

Speaker 6:

also, whatever's gonna make you the most money,

kimberly:

right? That is our goal. And I think part of that comes from many people immigrated into the United States to build better lives because they weren't able to have those opportunities in their countries. And so they came here to work and to work hard because they had that opportunity to quote unquote, better their lives or better their economic. Standpoint. And so when you're focused on that, you're not really focused on joy.

Speaker 8:

No.

kimberly:

then future generations see that was the KPI. And so that's what they use as their indicator.

Speaker 6:

this was a very interesting topic. Choice. Yeah. I've never really thought about it like that.

Speaker 5:

And

kimberly:

then there was also the industrial revolution, which I don't know if that plays a part in it or not, but there was like the eight hours for work, eight hours for sleep, and eight hours for commuting.

Speaker 5:

8,

kimberly:

16, 24. Yeah. Equals 24 hours. What was the other eight hours for family?

Speaker 6:

I don't know. Personal time. And historically two hour or Jesus, two weeks a year of like vacation time from your corporate job was like a lot, like a good amount.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

I can't imagine now only taking two weeks.

kimberly:

Two weeks is nothing you can eat through two weeks and

Speaker 6:

makes me wanna cry. Yeah. I

kimberly:

But there was a time when people didn't work eight hours a day. They worked 12 all day,

Speaker 5:

all day.

kimberly:

15 and you worked seven days a week. And so unions busted that up. Yeah. But just a thought. another reason is joy feels inefficient.

Speaker 6:

Ah, this goes along the lines of oh, I have a day off. If I sit and do nothing, then I'm wasting my time. All of us are dying at alarming rates of. Chronic disease more and more studies every year go to show that stress plays a huge part in all of that. And we can't even allow ourselves to take one day to do nothing. And trust me, I'm speaking from experience.'cause I feel guilty if I sit down to do nothing at the end of the night.

kimberly:

Yeah. We worship efficiency. Joy doesn't produce an ROI stands for return on investment.

Speaker 4:

Thank you. You saw the questioning look on my face.

kimberly:

Yeah. You can't track it, you can't optimize it. You can't monetize it. And so why would we care about joy? The other thing, I think this one is more of a modern conundrum, but joy requires you to be present. So to feel the joy, you have to slow down. You have to notice, you have to be in the moment, you have to be in your body. And we're always on our phones. We've got packed schedules. Like

Speaker 6:

I'm thinking about the things that I have to do at work tomorrow. I'm not,

kimberly:

there's always so much stuff on our minds and even our environments, like there's often so much going on in our environments, so it's really hard to be present and not thinking about the next thing. Yeah. And so it's hard to feel joy if you're not being present in that moment.

Speaker 9:

Yeah.

kimberly:

And then the last point I wanted to make, unless you had anything to add to the other thing.

Speaker 6:

Oh, I'm sure I could, no. Okay, keep going.

kimberly:

So the last point that I wanted to make about joy is that joy is vulnerable. joy exposes us. if you show joy, you risk disappointment, you risk looking naive or silly or unserious, just like we were just questioning earlier where I was like am I just immature? Because I'm like, and joy means being open. So if you express joy or if you tell someone like, Hey you make me really happy you being in my life makes me so happy. And they're just kind of like, what? what? And they don't necessarily return it. It can make you vulnerable.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. That's soul crushing.

kimberly:

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 6:

yeah, it's just like sharing anything you like with anyone. There's always a risk of disappointment. I remember someone I dated I shared a song with them that I really liked and it was like, not long after my dad died, and it the song like really meant something to me and the lyrics just hit me really hard. And I was like, man, this song is amazing. I really want you to listen to it and I want you to listen to the words and

kimberly:

I want you to fucking love it as much as I do.

Speaker 6:

much. And I get that not everyone is going to like the same things that you do and that's totally fine. And it doesn't mean it's a rejection, but sharing something that you love or that you feel something so deeply with someone that you care about and then they don't like it.

kimberly:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

God, it is soul crushing sometimes. And he did not like it. And I was just like, and that doesn't mean it's like a personal attack, it's just a preference. But yeah. 25-year-old me was like, oh, I'm gonna watch what I share with people now.

kimberly:

Yeah. Because it does, it leaves you vulnerable. And some of us are more susceptible to that vulnerability than others. Yeah. But

Speaker 5:

yeah,

kimberly:

I just thought that was a really interesting, an interesting point. I'm sure there's other reasons if you, dear listener, can think of another reason. You can send us a text message right now

Speaker 5:

do it right

Speaker 6:

now.

kimberly:

Open up those show notes and tell us,

Speaker 6:

or like to give us a, an education on religion.

kimberly:

Yes. We we need somebody to come to, come on. Tell us. Nevermind.

Speaker 6:

I was ra I was raised Catholic until the age of nine. My parents divorced when I was nine, and that was about the time we stopped going to

kimberly:

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I was not raised, my dad is an atheist and my mom is agnostic yeah. So

Speaker 6:

no, I made that conclusion on my own in high school. But we can save that story for another time.

kimberly:

We certainly can. Okay. So if we used Joy as a KPI, what would that look like? If we were like today you and I made that decision. I've got some ideas. instead of like revenue goals or saving your money goals, saying did I feel alive today? Did I, ooh, did I feel alive today?

Speaker 5:

in hot?

kimberly:

Yeah. And the answer is yes. I, yes, I did have some caffeine today. So I did feel joy. I did feel alive.

Speaker 4:

I felt like I was moving really fast

kimberly:

and I had to pee a lot. That makes you feel very alive. Instead of like productivity milestones, did I laugh today instead of did I check things off my to-do list? Did I savor something? Why are you looking at me like that? She's giving me like dough eyes

Speaker 6:

because that's really sweet. I think these are not, remember, I feel things very deeply.

kimberly:

right. That's right. You do. I feel like this isn't exclusive to women because I'm not necessarily bad about this because I'm. Very much somebody who's like, I'm fucking tired. I don't wanna do this. But I know that a lot of women deal with this is the feeling guilty, when they rest, when they buy something for themselves to treat themselves whether it's a big purchase or not. Or when they say no

Speaker 5:

or

kimberly:

they apologize a lot. Meredith wow,

Speaker 6:

was like, wow. It feels pointed

kimberly:

when they choose fun over chores slash work slash responsibilities. And I don't think that's exclusive to women because I'm married to somebody who is very much all of these things. Like he feels

Speaker 6:

we're people pleasers?

kimberly:

Yeah. we need to stop feeling guilty when we say no, when we rest, when we, I obviously that's harder than I,

Speaker 6:

I, I think I split it a little bit. Like I do have a hard time saying no, but I don't have a hard time doing things for myself. Like I don't feel guilty about that. But I do have a hard time like. Not wanting to help someone out or saying no, even though I don't have time or really shouldn't be doing the thing. It's like I don't want to come off as insincere or uncaring, so I do it anyways. And then it's a stress on me later. But I would like to point out that I think we were getting at something with mildly thriving in general. I think our mildly thriving scale is A-A-A-K-P-I for joy.

kimberly:

Oh my god, Meredith. That is like such a good point. I hadn't even thought about that. Of like just being okay with not being the most productive not every day has to be. Super. Eight outta 10. Yeah. Super productive and just going you know what I'm gonna find joy in this. I didn't even think of that. You're so smart,

Speaker 6:

man. Look at what taking those meds will do.

kimberly:

I know.

Speaker 6:

I can come up with a thought.

kimberly:

You're on it. So I decided to come up with some fun ways to add fun

Speaker 5:

and joy

kimberly:

to our lives.

Speaker 4:

F is for friends who do stuff together. U is for you and me. You

Speaker 6:

didn't watch SpongeBob growing up, did you?

kimberly:

I didn't. I didn't really like cartoons.

Speaker 6:

Oh, that's right. You still don't like cartoons. Anyways anyone,

kimberly:

that hasn't

Speaker 6:

any other millennial who's seen SpongeBob will understand that reference, but it's the fun song. Tell me what fun thing you came up with.

Speaker 5:

Okay.

kimberly:

So here are some ways that you can try to fit in a little bit of joy in your life. Just a little bit of fun. Okay? Okay. So number one is narrate your life, like a nature documentary. Have you ever done this? No. It's actually really fun.

Speaker 6:

Can I use the David Attenborough voice?

kimberly:

a hundred percent. Or you can do Steve Irwin. Oh. Or I'm sure there's other ways to do it. Or you can pretend you're a medieval peasant who has landed in 2025 for the first time and you're watching them experience life

Speaker 6:

in the 21st century for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Imagine

kimberly:

They'd be like, oh my God.

Speaker 6:

No.

kimberly:

Yeah,

Speaker 6:

it'd be like seeing an alien spaceship, something along those lines.

kimberly:

It'd be pretty crazy.

Speaker 6:

Okay. All right. Nature documentary.

kimberly:

Okay, so number two is have a one song karaoke session.

Speaker 6:

Huh? Done. I do that every day.

kimberly:

You do?

Speaker 6:

Yeah. You kidding? I love singing.

kimberly:

I love singing too. But people don't like hearing it.

Speaker 6:

I'll be the judge of that.

kimberly:

It's pretty bad.

Speaker 6:

Okay,

kimberly:

Wear an unexpected outfit accessory that like just makes you so happy.

Speaker 9:

Okay.

kimberly:

So for you that would be like something like colorful or whatever. I feel like for me, maybe that's like doing my nails or,'cause it just makes me feel so much more put together.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. That's. A lot of why I,

Speaker:

I,

Speaker 6:

I do my nails.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

kimberly:

You could also give your inanimate objects, personalities.

Speaker 6:

I talk for my dog every single day, but he's not Anate object.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

kimberly:

Josh and I did that with Kona before we put her down and now we don't, but I think the plants are gonna come alive here real soon.

Speaker 4:

Oh shit.

kimberly:

Yeah. Or you get a puppet, you could just like have a little puppet that you keep on your hand and

Speaker 6:

Okay. There is a really adorable girl that I follow on Instagram I saw one of her videos where she's just like, I grew up and realized I have adult money and can do whatever I want with my time, and I make my own hand puppets. And I was just like. Yeah. Good for you. She's adorable and hilarious. And we are adults with adult money that can do whatever the fuck we want with our time. And if that's what brings you joy, fucking do it.

kimberly:

Yes. Josh and I also have this thing where, we're like, do you wanna go buy a sheet cake? We have, We have credit cards. so my parents are very much boomers and my aunt and uncle, and I was with them this last weekend and at one point I'd had a few drinks and I was like, you guys, we all have credit cards. Every single one of us has a credit card. Let's go get crazy. I was like, does anybody want to go to Maui right now? And they all looked at me and they're like, oh my God, this bitch is crazy.

Speaker 7:

How many drinks has Kimberly had?

kimberly:

bad? My mother was just like, I the, you are the spawn of Satan. Just the look of disappointment on her face. But I'm like, we could go to the store right now and we could buy a sheet cake. It's nobody's birthday, nobody's gonna stop us. Nobody if we just give them our credit card or even a debit card. If you wanna be really responsible, nobody is gonna stop us. And sometimes that just makes you feel better of I'm an adult. I can do, I can make fucking hand puppets.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

kimberly:

Great. Or you can give your inanimate objects, personalities. If you wanna save some money

Speaker 6:

you can buy an espresso machine off of Facebook marketplace and make three coffees

kimberly:

Is that what you did?

Speaker 6:

Yep. I'm not sad about that at all.

kimberly:

I'm not sad about it at all for you either.

Speaker 6:

I love the espresso machine and. I looked online and they're like 380 bucks, brand new. And I was like, Even with credit cards, I'm not willing to do it. I can't do it. And then I found it on Facebook Marketplace.

kimberly:

I'm not condoning being crazy irresponsible. I'm just saying reminding yourself I know. We can do these things. We could like, we could do whatever we wanted.

Speaker 6:

I'm normally not the responsible one, but I had a responsible moment, but then I still wanted the thing, I just didn't wanna spend 380 bucks on it and I remembered that Facebook marketplace is a thing and I was like, just type espresso at the search bar.

Speaker:

Good for you.

Speaker 6:

Some lady had the exact one I wanted. Brand new inbox 180 I offered her one 50 and she was like one 70 and I was like, done. Be there tomorrow with cash. I would've bought it at 180 5, but what's the harm

kimberly:

thing? Why not? Yeah, I bought my espresso machine with credit card points.

Speaker 6:

Nice. That's always the best. I'm like, oh, this was free. Yeah.

kimberly:

Yep. That made me feel a lot better. Okay, so the next one that I have is eating something in the most absurdly fancy way that you possibly could. Oh, I like that one. Use your fine China. Why aren't you using your fine China today? I don't have fine China, but

Speaker 6:

I don't either. But doesn't that make anyone else feel nice? Just even if you're at home by yourself and making yourself like a nice, even if it's not like a cocktail, like a nice drink at night oh yeah. Sometimes making it in a fun glass just makes me feel cool. Yeah. Makes me feel fancy.

kimberly:

Josh makes the most amazing charcuterie boards. Like they're just does, they're like, they're just beautiful.

Speaker 6:

Wow. Josh, how come I haven't seen one of these?

kimberly:

Yeah, he's gonna, he'll hear this and bring us charcuterie board at some point.

Speaker 5:

My goal.

kimberly:

the other thing was start a mini brag journal. Just write down like little brags, like I didn't shit my pants today.

Speaker 6:

Oh, always a good one.

kimberly:

Yep. That one gets the people going. And then my last one is tell someone that you love them. Like Send them a nice text message or I

Speaker 6:

to be better about that.

kimberly:

No, don't. Should yourself. Okay. Don't do that. This wasn't meant to make you feel guilty. It was just trying to find a way to bring joy.

Speaker 5:

I know. It's

kimberly:

simple, easy ways there's so many times where I've sent text messages and I'm just like, oh my God, that makes me so happy. Just sending a nice hi, I speaking of you. Hi. I love you. Yeah. That's it.

Speaker 6:

I love you, Kimberly.

kimberly:

I love you too, Meredith. Aww.

Speaker 6:

Aw, look at us. Go

kimberly:

literally cuddled up in bed.

Speaker 6:

I not joking. We each have our blankets, although Kimberly's wearing her fucking Ugg boots in bed.

kimberly:

these are indoor shoes.

Speaker 6:

Okay. Sorry. Those are her indoor UG boots.

kimberly:

I do not wear Ugg boots outside. Ugg. Uggs boots are slippers. so dear listeners, if you have any little mini joy ideas, you can send them to us via our text messaging program.

Speaker 6:

our text messaging program,

kimberly:

or You can message us on Instagram at mildly thriving pod. So that's all I have for you guys today.

Speaker 6:

I love this made my day.

kimberly:

really? Yeah. Oh,

Speaker 6:

I think you and I are pretty good at finding the joy in things, but it's still a good reminder of

kimberly:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

What we prioritize in life.

kimberly:

Yes. And I think you and I have done like independently of each other, but we've done a good job living the lives that we want versus what was always expected of us. Not saying that we didn't do some of those things. And we may look back on them and go I wish I hadn't done that. But I think for the most part, We've built the lives that we wanted. Yeah. So I'm

Speaker 6:

I'm grateful every day. Yay us. Oh, okay. Cool. We just came up with a

kimberly:

secret handshake. Handshake. Yeah. Yeah. That's all I've got for you guys today. Do you have anything you need to put out there in the world?

Speaker 6:

I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

kimberly:

This one comes out after Thanksgiving.

Speaker 6:

I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

kimberly:

Yes, me too.

Speaker 6:

that's it. That's all I got.

kimberly:

Cool. Yep. Same. Alright Meredith?

Speaker:

Yes.

kimberly:

This is a great reminder that

Speaker 6:

mildly thriving

kimberly:

is thriving enough. Yeah, it

Speaker:

is.

kimberly:

Woo. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 6:

bye.

Speaker:

Just gonna touch your hand again.